Speaker A: A genie tells a man he has three wishes. The man immediately asks for a world without lawyers. Done, says the genie. You have no more wishes. The man objects. But you said I had three. The genie smiles and says, so sue me.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Cross examiner podcast, the Internet’s courtroom in the case of rationality versus religion. Here, our host uses his experience as both an attorney and an atheist to put religion on trial. We solemnly swear that it is the most informative, educational, and entertaining jury duty you will ever do. And now it’s time for the cross examiner.

Speaker A: Hi. This is the cross examiner. Before we get going on this episode, I wanted to explain that I started recording this as a rocket docket episode. But as I kept talking and doing research, it basically blossomed into a full episode. And it’s right on point with what I’d like to discuss. So you’re going to hear me talking about it being a rocket docket episode, but it grew and grew and grew, as some things do. And so I present to you a full episode. Thanks for listening and on with the show. Welcome. Welcome to another edition of the Cross Examiner’s rocket docket. This is a segment where we talk about the news of the day, stuff that’s kind of urgent to talk about. As I said before, this is going to be unscripted me talking off the top of my head. So forgive the, UMS, OVs coughs, uh, pausing to look things up and reference things. But these issues come up and I want to get content out there. I want to get some facts out there to try to head off the misinformation that’s going to be flying around the Internet. And today we’re following up to yesterday’s rocket docket. We had a preacher on yesterday that said that, uh, he wanted suicide bombers, christian suicide bombers. And I told you he broadcast his show on Kenneth Copeland’s network. I did some more research and found out today that that network, it’s a program called Flashpoint. Kenneth Copeland made flashpoint in 2020 to support Donald Trump’s reelection. And he uses it to spread lies about the election, disinformation, conspiracy theories, that sort of stuff. Well, Kenneth Copeland is in the news today, and it’s because he is spreading more lies today. I mean, I should, I should be more specific. Today he is spreading lies about the founding of the United States. It’s a common trope that Christian nationalists try to perpetrate to say this is a Christian nation. The concept that the United States was formed as a Christian nation is just on its face, false. And you have to have avoided every single history book in your past to believe it. But you also have to listen to people like Kenneth Copeland. All right, so I’m going to play some of this sermon that has sort of the most outrageous lies. And I’d like you to take a listen here he is talking about Washington’s first inauguration.

Speaker C: Washington invoked his oath and covenant unto the Lord and sealed it with so help me God.

Speaker A: Okay, let’s pause it right there. Let’s see. I’m looking at Audacity. It’s the software I use to record this. And less than 8 seconds is how long that clip is. Less than 8 seconds it took for him to tell his first lie. Washington never said so help me God. In his inauguration speech. He didn’t mention God at all. He didn’t mention Jesus. He made vague allusions deistic, allusions, to quote that almighty being who rules over the universe to the great author. This is the language he used. Very vague, very non Christian. One other time, he addressed him as the parent of the human race. So let’s keep in mind where this is coming from, okay? Both where Washington is coming from and where Copeland is coming from. Washington is coming from the Enlightenment. Enlightenment thinkers like Jefferson and Washington and everybody involved in the founding of the United States rejected, for the most part, the traditional view of Christianity as being absolutely true, literally true. The vast majority of the Founding Fathers were deists. They believed in some Creator, some divine watchmaker, so to speak, that set the ticking of the universe going. But they didn’t believe in a God of the Bible, a Jesus who came down and performed miracles and did all that. Jefferson famously created his own copy of the Bible with everything cut out except of Jesus’s words as good advice. This is how they viewed religion at the time. Now, I’m not 100% sure what Washington’s personal beliefs were, but the language I just read to you certainly reflects, uh, more deistic on the scale of personal God that intervenes every second of the universe to a deism. It certainly reflects one that’s a more impersonal God. So for Copeland to come in and in the first seven point whatever seconds, tell his first lie by saying, Washington said, so help me God, is extremely telling, he has to lie right off the bat. Now, why is that? We’ve talked on this podcast of what I’m concerned about. It’s about Christian nationalism. Christian nationalism is basically identified with you saying, I believe that the United States is a Christian country. You could ask one question of anybody. That question, more than anything else, will identify that they are a Christian nationalist. Coincidentally, studies have been done by, uh, various political science, uh, professors. Let me get a book off my shelf. 1 second. Okay. There are two books that you should read by a political scientist who has explained what’s going on with Christian nationalism and with Trump. His name is Michael Tesler, and he wrote two books that I strongly recommend. You’ve got Obama’s race. And that has a clever double meaning to mean it’s the Race for the Presidency through the eyes of a political science analyst, but also the color of his skin. And then his other book. Post racial or most racial? Those two books have in it solid data, charts, graphs, statistical analysis, everything that you would want to a very high degree of, um, certainty about several issues. I’ve spoken on them in the past, but one of them that relates to this question is the question I just asked you do you believe that the United States is a Christian nation? If you answer yes to that, not only are you very likely to hold Christian nationalist views, uh, beyond that it is a Christian nation, that it should be, that the government should take acts to promote that sort of the fascist Christian nationalism views. It’s very indicative of that. But it is also the single best question you could ask somebody in Trump’s election as to whether or not they voted for Trump. The single biggest indicator, the biggest correlation we could find between one question and whether or not you voted for Trump was that question, do you believe that the United States is a Christian nation? If you said yes to that, it was a better indicator that you voted for Trump than any other single question that includes what is your gender, what is your race, what is your party affiliation? It was a better indicator that you would vote for Trump than whether you were a Republican or Democrat. It was better than your own religious views. Are you Catholic? Are you Protestant? Are you atheist? Are you none? That question is less indicative of whether or not you voted for Trump than if you said yes to I believe that the United States is a Christian nation. Editing examiner here. I wanted to make sure that I was right about this, so I went and looked this up and I am right. Uh, but there is a tie. Uh, Trump. You voted for Trump if you said yes to Christian nationalist questions, but you also voted for Trump if you were Islamophobic. Those are essentially the same rate. So it’s a tie. It is the best question. And the authors of the study say, well, it’s hard to separate Christian nationalism from Islamophobia because they’re so closely tied together. A study, if you want to read up on this, was called Make America Christian Again christian Nationalism and Voting for Donald Trump in the 2016 Presidential Election by Andrew Whitehead et al. In the journal called Sociology of Religion. So back to the show that is Christian nationalism. This is what’s going on. So this is why Copeland is starting off with the lie. He is saying even Washington said, so help me God. He used the word God and he has to work that in there because he’s building a false narrative. What have I said since episode one? I’m concerned about Christian nationalism and more importantly, the mountains of misinformation that support it, that push it forward. And here it is, live, happening today. Copeland in 7.7 seconds is saying a lie, an absolute lie. He doesn’t have to. He can go and look at the speech. There’s all sorts of religious sort of deistic wishywashy sort of stuff that Washington says, and we can talk about why he says that and why he uses the language that he does. I must, in this inaugural speech, in my first official act, give recognition to the Almighty being who rules over the universe and, uh, has helped the United States. And I’m sure that when I do this, I’m not expressing it just for me, but also for you, the listeners, and certainly the people of our nation. Why would somebody speak that way? We can go and read his writings and find out more. But it’s equally possible, and I don’t even know it’s equally possible. It’s possible that he said that because he believes in Christianity, but he didn’t want to mention Jesus because he didn’t want the country to be a Christian nation. It could be that he believes in Jesus, but he just uses the word Almighty Being. Or it could be that he doesn’t really buy into the Jesus thing, and he’s trying to be political, as he was so famously good at doing and bringing a country together where he knew the vast majority of people in the country were Christian. So he’s giving a political tip of the hat to them. That for me, my reading is what’s going on here, right? But it could be any but we certainly don’t have him say, So help me God, we don’t have that. So that’s 8 seconds in. I hope I don’t have to do another four minutes to debunk the next 8 seconds, but let’s let him continue.

Speaker C: He bowed his knee to the ground in reverence and kissed the Bible.

Speaker A: Ladies and gentlemen, we have a new record. 4.2 seconds for the next lie. He bowed his knee to the ground. Not true. No account of the inauguration says that he bowed his knee to the ground. None. Not even the urban legends. There are urban legends that say that he kissed the Bible. They are not in reliable sources. They even have it on Mount Vernon’s website. But they don’t have any sources. They don’t cite anything. They just assert it. So I have reached out to Mount Vernon website. They have a question area where you can submit questions, and I have asked them that question to say, hey, you say that he kissed the Bible. Can you please send me your sources for this? Because I can’t find any sources that cite any contemporary witness that says that this happened. We’ll see what happens. I’ll keep you updated on that one. Certainly they don’t have any sources for so help me God. They don’t say that on the Mountain Verdon website. Okay, so kissing the Bible, maybe we give that to him as, oh, urban legends, been around for a while. Um, even though there are no reliable sources but so help me God. And kneeling and all of that not true. The earliest account that we have of anybody saying that Washington said, so help me God is attributed to Washington Irving, who would have been six at the time of the inauguration. And the earliest he spoke about it or wrote about it was 60 years after the event. It’s not like he came home and told his parents and they wrote it down, or they wrote a letter to a pen pal or an aunt or a grandma and described this at the time. 60 years later, he decides to start saying, washington said, so help me God. Washington was a religious man. And note the records I’ve found say that he wasn’t at the inauguration. It says that he met Washington after the inauguration. His name’s Washington Irving. He was born when New, uh, York learned of the, uh, ceasefire that ended the revolution that ended the Revolutionary War, and he was named after George Washington. Washington Irving. Right. And we was six at the time. He was not at the inauguration. When I say not at he was not up there on the podium. He wasn’t going to see Washington. He met Washington after the inauguration, and he’s the one who’s saying, 60 years on. Oh, yeah, he said, uh, so help me God. I remember that now. Never mentioned it before. What’s more likely? All right, what’s more likely? That he was, uh, proud of his namesake or who he was named after, and he had some sort of religious beliefs and he decided to tell this story? He was a writer, a very famous writer, right. And he decided to weave a story about his recollections of the time and added this detail to either enhance the character or had sort of a vague sense that he wanted Washington to say this or that. He didn’t mention it at all, ever, for his entire life, until 60 years later, when he first started mentoring it, because he just had some sort of accurate insight that nobody else documented at the time. People on the stage, people who wrote all the letters to all their loved ones, recounting everything in details to what happened. Because keep in mind, there’s not much to do back then, right? You can read books, you can read newspapers if you could get them, and you could talk about politics, and politics was pretty heavy. This is, uh, the first in the world president. This is the first in the world. Pure democracy with an elected executive. It’s not like people just said, went to the inauguration today. So, anyway, the weather’s nice. No, this was historic, and everybody wrote it down in detail. And there’s no mention of this. There’s no mention. All we have is one rumor that’s been circulating the Internet for decades that he kissed to the Bible. That’s about it, right? So I’ll let you know what I hear back from Mount Vernon. To their credit, they replied right away it’s an automatic reply. But they say in their automatic reply, some questions may require a bit of research to provide the most accurate information available to us, which may take some time. We appreciate your patience. I do appreciate them. I like that response. So hopefully they will do the research and will be able to cite and prove that, uh, they are justified in saying that he kissed the Bible. So at most we have a rumor that he kissed the Bible. He didn’t kneel and he certainly didn’t say, so help me God. And he didn’t say God and he didn’t say Jesus and he didn’t say Christian nation. He didn’t say any of that. So we are now two lies in what, 12 seconds? Let’s see if we can keep up the pace.

Speaker C: Afterward, Washington called the senators and newly elected officials to join him. And they walked arm in arm down the streets of New York City’s chapel. There they bowed together, prayed and dedicated this land, our beloved America, to God.

Speaker A: So maybe one thing he said was true there, that Washington called the senators, the Congressmen, to join him, but almost assuredly everything else was a half truth or a lie. So what he’s trying to say, what he’s trying to portray, is George Washington with a halo above his head and the ghost of Jesus standing behind him, with Jesus’s hand on Washington’s shoulder, said, come, let us go and dedicate this land to God. We must go to a church and kneel and pray and all of that stuff. That’s not what happened at all. And we know this for sure because we have records. We actually can go and look at these. I will post this on my website@thecrossexaminer.net. But if you go and look at the records of Congress, and we have them from the time for, uh, the period in question, the days before the inauguration, we can see it is not Washington who says, let’s go to this church, although he may have said it technically at the time, like, hey, we’re done with the speech. Let’s go to the service. That is planned. But my point is, Congress planned this. Congress on Monday, April 27, is already in the middle of all these plans of what are we going to do? Oh my gosh, the President is going to come to the first time. Let’s make sure we get this right. And this is for the record, because this is going to matter later when we hear more of Copeland’s lies. This is on page 216 of the first volume of the Annals of Congress. All right? And it is dated April 27, 1789. We see a couple of things happen. One, they decide that in the future. What do they call it? I think they say Friday next, we will proceed by ballot to the appointment of a chaplain to Congress. When I made my appearance on the nonprofits. We talked about this in relationship to the Texas bills, about when has government been allowed by the courts to hire chaplains, and this is one of them, right? That congress hired a chaplain. And that’s an indication that the founders thought that well, that’s not a violation of the first Amendment, that it’s okay for governments to do this, because these people, these congressmen, were traveling days or weeks to get to New. Uh, York City at the time, and they thought it appropriate that they supply chaplain services for people of Congress because they’re uprooted from their town. They don’t have their normal pastor with them, so that’s okay. Same thing for the army, right? Same thing for prisoners, people that aren’t in their normal society and don’t have access to a chaplain services. So that’s what they did there, then. The record indicates that a Mr. Benson. I’m not sure who that is. I’d have to research that. I don’t remember that name off the top of my head. Hi. Editing examiner here. I looked it up. It’s Egbert. Benson. He was quite the, uh, person. He was the first representative from New York to Congress, as I just discussed. He was also the first Attorney General of New York. He was the Chief Justice of the New York Supreme Court, and he was the Chief United States Circuit Judge of the United States Circuit Court for the Second Circuit. So he’s a pretty, uh, important person. Back to the show, he says, Mr. Benson, from the committee of both Houses. So you have a committee that makes up members of the Senate and of the House of Representatives to decide sort of operational, like, how’s the building going to run, type of thing. That’s what that committee does. Reported as followeth literally says that, quote it appears to the committee more eligible that the oath should be administered to the president in the outer gallery adjoining the senate chamber than in the representatives chamber. And therefore I’m going to submit it was what he means to the respective houses, uh, the propriety of authorizing their committees to take order as to the place where the oath shall be administered to the President. The resolutions of Saturday assigning the Representatives Chambers as a place notwithstanding. Like, hey, we got together and talked about it, and I know that last Saturday we said it should be the Representatives Chamber, but we all agree that the Senate Chamber is better. So can we change that? This is what they’re doing, right? They are arranging the seating plan at the wedding. They are fiddling with, uh, the playlist before the guests show up. That’s what’s going on in Congress right now. And then after that, it says in, uh, some more stuff about appointing people to committees and stuff. There’s one section of one sentence that says, quote, an order of the 27th instance. I think they mean, um, proposal ah, number 27 that we’re going to address for the attendance of both houses with the President of the United States after the oath shall be administered to him to hear divine service at St. Paul’s Chapel, which was read and ordered to lie on the table. There’s a lot of lying on the table. Every section says, here’s the proposal. That proposal was read and it was ordered that that proposal lie on the table. They don’t have the Internet back then. They don’t have copy machines. They don’t have mimeographs, if you remember those. So they literally would take the piece of paper and order it to lie on the table so the members of Congress could walk up and read it if they wanted to. That was their World Wide Web, right? That was their Facebook. That was their TikTok. So this is what’s going on at the time. This is three days. This is Monday, 20 April, uh, 27th, three days before the inauguration. They’re like, we’re not sure about the room anymore. And oh, I think afterwards we should have service at St. Paul’s, not any other church. Like they’re picking a church to do the service with. It’s sort of a given that you’re going to have a service. So it’s Congress that says we’re going to do this. They’re the ones who decide we’re going to St. Paul’s. It’s not Washington, after he gives the inauguration that says calls them together and says, let us go unto St. Paul’s and dedicate this nation unto God. Not what happened at all. So I’m going to give him a 70, uh, 5% lie because he’s intentionally changing the story. Or he may be saying something that’s literally true. If in fact, Washington said, all right, we’re done with this talking. Let’s get to walking. If that’s what he was saying, then yes, he did call the people to go. I don’t have any record of that. I haven’t done a lot of research. These Rocket docket episodes are just headline comes on. It’s important to you. It’s important to me. It’s about Christian nationalism or skepticism or misinformation. And I want to get it out there to push back against this information because it might be going around the Internet right now. And boy, is it like Copeland. You got to see the video. I’ll put a link to the video up there. He’s wearing a jacket that is the United States flag. Remember that quote from a few episodes back? I said, when fascism comes to America, it will be draped in the flag and carrying a Bible, right? That’s what this Copeland guy is. That’s what the Christian nationalism wants is they’rewriting history, Allah. Orwell in 1984, they’re rewriting history and telling it to their audience. And their audience is eating it up to say, oh, yeah, this is a Christian nation. Washington knelt on the ground, kissed the Bible, said, so help me God. Then he called people together and marched down the street and chose this church to go in and dedicate the country. This is amazing. This is what we want. And Copeland. Is Deifying george Washington here? Let’s not get it wrong. Let’s listen to more of Copeland talking about what Washington did the day that.

Speaker C: George Washington was inaugurated. This was the day covenant was invoked.

Speaker A: No, it wasn’t.

Speaker C: America belong to God.

Speaker A: All my um, no, um, it didn’t. Now I just want to pause it here again. Uh, besides, you know, pausing it for my snarky remarks to say that’s a long applause. These people are standing on their feet. This is a tent revival. He’s speaking in some sort of outdoor event. He’s doing the old fashioned tent bible thump and preaching. And these people stand up and cheer this. They want to be told that this is a Christian nation. Why? Because they’re Christian. And if they’re told that it’s a Christian nation, it means it’s their nation. And all those people coming that aren’t Christian, they can get out. They can leave. This is my country. That’s how fascism works. There’s two books I would like. You’ve got homework? All right, I’m going to assign you homework over the next couple, uh, of months. There’s two books you need to read. If there’s two books I had in mind for you to read that are the theme of this podcast, the first one is by Andrew Seidel. You may have heard in my interview with Ryan Jane from the Freedom from Religion Foundation that he met Andrew Seidel while he was in law school, while Ryan was in law school. And that’s how he got involved with FFRF. Freedom from Religion Foundation. Well, he’s written books, and this is one of my favorite. Mr. Seidel wrote a book called The Founding Myth why Christian Nationalism Is Unamerican. That book, more than anything else, will help you push back against the rising tide of Christian nationalism. It is a factual account of everything that they get wrong. And unlike most claims and books written by Christian nationalists like Copeland here, it contains voluminous footnotes with citations to sources like lawyers do. So if you read only one book that I recommend, and I’m going to recommend a lot, because there’s a lot of books out there that are really good on this. But the founding myth why Christian Nationalism is Unamerican by Andrew Seidel. It’s got a foreword by, uh, Susan Jacobi and a preface by Dan Barker. Dan Barker is the founder of FFRF. The other book is a supplement, I guess, or a companion to that. It’s not literally one, but it’s called How Fascism Works the Politics of US and Them by Jason Stanley. This is a smaller book. It’s a faster read, but boy, is it powerful. If you read these two books, seidel proving that the United States is not a Christian nation and Christian nationalism is false. The fascist idea of Christian nationalism is false. And then read how fascism works. You’ll see, uh, how we are where we are today. How we push back and fight is really a matter of education. And that’s why the conservatives are going after our schools now, right? They’ve got the courts, they’ve got the Supreme Court now. They’re going after the schools because though they know that’s how you cut people off from reality. They want Mr. Copeland on stage saying this bullshit, and they want a passive zombie audience that will just nod in agreement, stand up in cheer, and not question it one bit, nor have the academic skills to go and look up something and read what actually happened. That’s what they want. That’s their dream. Fascist universe. Let’s continue it’s.

Speaker C: God abram Abraham, Isaac, Jacob became Israel, Jesus and George.

Speaker A: Remember earlier when I said that Copeland is trying to deify Washington? I wasn’t kidding. He just said it. He just did. The lineage of the holy men of the Bible, and at the end, he included Jesus and George. Those are the key figures in his mind. That there is a lineage from the beginning of time, from creation through to George Washington is now a holy man that is a Christian figure. Wow. Not only did he not is that not true? He doesn’t mention God, he doesn’t mention Jesus, he doesn’t mention Christianity in anything that Copeland’s talking about here at all. Uh, it’s just pure pandering, false pandering. And this is all they have. Like, if there were facts, he would be up there waving a piece of paper on the stage. Here it is. Here’s his diary where he talks about, yes, I am glad Jesus spoke to me. We are making a Christian nation. You don’t have any of that. We have a treaty of Tripoli that was ratified unanimously by Congress and signed by Adams, the second president of the United States, that says unanimously by every representative article 11 17 97, treaty of Tripoli. Quote, the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion, end quote. Again, unanimous approval of this language by every representative in Congress at the time 1797, signed by the President of the United States, John Adams. That’s what we have in the documentation. That’s why Christian nationalism is wrong. This is the official act that Copeland doesn’t want to talk about, right? This is where they address it and say, if anybody’s confused, let us clear up. That’s why they’re doing this in the treaty. They’re assuring the parties to the treaty to say, don’t worry. The government of the United States, again, quote, is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion, period. Close quote. Let’s listen to Copeland wrap things up after he has lied and then deified Washington.

Speaker C: This nation, particularly to Christian people, should be completely, totally based on what George Washington said to Jesus.

Speaker A: Wait, what? This nation, especially for Christian people, should be based entirely on what Washington said to Jesus. Am I getting that right? I’m all ears. What did Washington say to Jesus? Were they hanging out in the sauna? Was he like, hey, can’t get my horse through this bog on my way to Congress. Uh, could you part the bog a little bit for me there, Jesus? I don’t know, I have no idea what he’s talking about here. What did Washington say to Jesus? Because if anybody is with Copeland right now, first, could you do a safety check? And then second, could you ask him what he meant by this? Does he mean that Washington prayed to God and said something to Jesus? Do we have records of that? Do we have any writings that tell us what Washington said to Jesus? Let’s google it. What did Washington say to Jesus? All right, the first hit is again from Mount Vernon. There’s an article entitled George Washington and Religion. Let’s see what they say. Uh, first sentence. When studying the religious beliefs of George Washington, it is difficult to make absolute concrete conclusions. Depending on the sources examined, washington has been painted in different lights, ranging from deist to a believing Christian. No matter what precise conclusion is obtained, there are common facts surrounding his relationship with religion. Later on, it says, looking at Washington’s theological beliefs, they discuss religious like was he a member of the church and freemason and all that stuff. Looking at Washington’s theological beliefs, it is clear that he believed in a creator God of some manner, and seemingly one who was also active in the universe. This God had three main traits. He was wise, inscrutable, and irresistible. Washington referred to this God by many names, but most often in the name of Providence. So that to me, seems to negate sort of my assertion earlier that he was a pure deist. It sounds like he was maybe a, um, naturalist. A deist is somebody who thinks that God sort of set the clock m spinning, set the top spinning, and then doesn’t interfere God. Here we’re hearing that if it’s a common trait, if the Mount Vernon sites to be trusted, they seem to do their research, although they missed, I think, the one on kissing the Bible. Um, here they’re saying that he does believe that God is active in the universe to some degree, but he refers to it as Providence. And if I recall his writings and his speech, if you haven’t read it, his inauguration speech is really great. Um, not as good as his resignation letter after his second term. That’s like his best writing. But if you read his inauguration speech, he does hint at that sort of manifest destiny type of European domination mentality that, that’s still in, uh, play here. But here’s the thing. Just like right now, I got some new evidence and I’m altering my position a tiny bit, right? That this position is saying, well, he kind of believed that something was active. He called it Providence, didn’t call it Jesus, didn’t call it, god called it these all these different names. I’m, uh, willing to go and do the research, as I hope you are, and educate myself as to what was the reality. Kenneth Copeland is relying on his audience to not question a single goddamn thing he says. And that’s the difference. We need citizens who are skeptical. And let me define skepticism for listeners who think skepticism means not believing anything that couldn’t be further, further from the truth. Skepticism says, I don’t believe something until there’s sufficient evidence. If you believe things without sufficient evidence, you can harm yourself. You can be fooled, uh, or defrauded, and you can hurt other people. Look at my series on faith healing, right? So, uh, being a skeptic is a healthy thing. You apportion your skepticism to the claim, right? If you’re telling me that you just ate a tuna fish sandwich for lunch, I’m not going to think anything of it because I know that tuna exists. I’ve eaten tuna fish sandwiches myself. I know that they’re fairly frequently eaten for lunch. I know there’s a thing called lunch. And I know you I’ve got evidence that all that exists, and it’s not surprising. And it will do me no harm if I accept the fact that you ate a tuna fish sandwich for lunch. But if you tell me that you ate a tuna fish sandwich for lunch while flying on a flying saucer from Mars, now we’re going to have a different question. I’m not going to accept that. So I’m skeptical. I am a skeptic about your claim about eating a tuna fish sandwich, but I accept it. I believe it. I just don’t accept the UFO because I’ve never seen UFOs. And the physics of UFOs seems to indicate we’re not going to have any aliens visiting us ever due to the speed of light and other physics, and certainly not of Mars, which we’ve explored fairly well with our probes that pass by and our landers, and we don’t see any sign of life there. It’s possible that you ate a tuna fish sandwich on a UFO from Mars. It’s possible. I’m not saying you didn’t. I’m just not accepting it the same way. It’s possible that there’s a God and there’s a Jesus, and that Jesus. The claims about Jesus in the Bible were either partly or entirely true. It’s possible. I’m just not accepting that yet. That’s the proper way to go through life so you don’t get duped by people like Copeland. His audience is standing up like slobbering dogs, just lapping this up. I want to be told that I’m special. That’s what Christianity is all about, right? There’s a trillion stars in this galaxy and there’s a trillion galaxies in the visible universe, but you are special. God cares about what you do with your private parts and what you eat. That’s how special you are. You are the center of everything. So the Christian mentality is I am the center of everything and they need to be kept being told that Copeland’s doing just that. You are special. This nation was made for you. Anybody who’s coming in to try to take this away from us is wrong and it will justify things like we heard yesterday from Ken Christmas, who is part of Ken Copeland’s network and broadcasts on the same show, the same network here who said, I need people to lay down their lives. I need people to strap bombs to their chest. That’s the type of Christians I want in my corner. So you can see how one escalates to the other. Copeland’s not saying that, but the guy on his network is. Copeland primes them up and the other guy brings them home to go out and start blowing people up. Don’t think that they’re unrelated. You have to believe this manifest destiny, this Christian nationalism, this lie, in order to become devout enough, deluded enough, irrational enough to think, well, if I do it for God, I’m going to go to heaven. So give me the bomb. Let’s hear what he says next.

Speaker C: The First Act of Congress. Number one. The first act of Congress was to enter covenant with the Almighty God based on the Book of Genesis.

Speaker A: Again, utterly not true. I don’t know what the Book of Genesis has to do with anything, but the first act of Congress is very easy to find. Google the first act of Congress and you will find in the National Archives an image of the very first act of Congress. All right? This was the first bill, I believe, not just the first act to be signed by a president. It was the first bill introduced in the House of Representatives and was the first act signed into law by Washington. And it was an act to regulate the time and manner of administering certain oaths. Of course, that’s the first thing you need to do because why? The Constitution says you have to take an oath of office before you can do anything. So we better have an oath. So you might be sitting here going, oh, wait. Do they say under God in the oath? Does it say, I swear to Jesus this Christian nation I shall protect? Nope. The mandated oath is the following quote I do solemnly swear or affirm, as the case may be, that I will support the Constitution of the United States, period. That’s the first act of Congress. The first act of Congress says this is the oath that you have to take. Does it mention God? Nope. Does it mention Jesus? Nope. Does it say Protect the Christian state? Nope. Does it have anything to do with the Book of Genesis? Nope. So obviously an absolute lie on his part, but maybe he was saying the first thing they did that wasn’t like the first action they took. He didn’t mean what he actually said, which is how they always sort of squirm out of things. They say something that has a very technical, precise meaning, the first act of Congress. And then they squirm out of it. They say, Well, I didn’t mean act, I meant action. The first thing they did well, what was the first thing they did? Was it something to do with the book of Genesis and making a covenant? Let’s read the first page of the congressional report, shall we? I haven’t read it. I’m going to go look it up. I’m willing to bet it has nothing to do with making a covenant with God and uh, the book of Genesis. So let me pause and go look it up. Okay, I’m back, I’ve read it up. Uh, it’s actually kind of funny. Wednesday, March 4, 1789. This is in the same document I was citing earlier. The history of proceedings of the debates, the uh, annals of Congress, et cetera. The COVID page, right? The title page. Wednesday, March 4, 1789. This being the day fixed for the meeting of the new Congress, the following members of the House of Representatives appeared and took their seats from Massachusetts, george Thatcher, Fisher Ames, George Leonard, et cetera. Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Virginia, south Carolina. They list people from that. And then they say, a quorum of the members not being present. The House adjourned until tomorrow at 11:00. I don’t know why I find that so funny. It’s like, all right, brand new country, brand new Congress, brand new thing, important stuff, uh, ready to go. Nobody, uh, shows up. Now of course, this is because travel is uncertain back then. You’re traveling by horseback and carriage and who knows what. I’m not a history expert in that respect, but certainly that was going on. But yeah, that’s the first thing that Congress did. Now again, that’s not a first act, but let’s take a look. Uh, Thursday, several other members attended a, uh, quorum not being present. They adjourned from the day to day until the 14th instant. So they list every day who started showing up. Saturday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Monday. I love this. The following members appeared, to wit blah blah blah blah. No additional member appeared on the 24th. There we go. Wednesday, April 1, two other members appeared, forming a quorum of the whole body. It was on motion, resolved, that this House will proceed to the choice of a speaker by ballot. So, as far as the first action goes, if that’s what Copeland meant, the first action was to, uh, elect a speaker, period. Like, if what he meant was first act, then we know the first act was about an oath. That doesn’t even mention religion at all. If they meant first action, it was, let’s meet and meet and meet and waited for. It was March 4. It wasn’t until April 1 that enough people showed up. And the very first action they took was to vote on a motion to a, uh, choice of a speaker by ballot. That was their first action. So Copeland is lying, coming and going. He’s just wrong. I don’t know what the whole Book of Genesis thing is. I think he’s getting on in the years, but just throwing in Book of Genesis after everything he says to get people to cheer. So I hope you enjoy these. I build this one as a rocket docket and I’m looking at my time. I’ve been talking for like 45 minutes. You guys need to stop me. Uh, you need to do something and stop me from ranting into the void. I’m obviously going to edit this down, but I think it’s important. This is a perfect example of how people in this country will use lies and deceptions and half truths and lies by omission to garner a belief in the public that they are special because of their religion. And, uh that they should elect religious people and promote religious laws to try to shove everybody that’s not like them, that’s not part of their in group aside so they can feel special. A special little child of the universe. And when that happens, bad stuff starts happening. I have no problem with people having their own personal religious beliefs. Have at it, right? The problem I have is when your belief turns to an entity, a thinking agent, right? That you believe that there is an agent out there with a mind and that mind has a desire. The minute that your belief entails something that has a desire that you can’t prove exists, but you believe it’s out there and it wants something, that’s when things get dangerous. Because when you start believing that you have access to a super mind that wants you to do something, all of a sudden you can commit atrocities. Just like in my last episode from yesterday where the preacher was saying we need more Christians that are willing to strap bombs to their chest. Just like the guy we heard from outside the Trump rally that was saying we’re just waiting for a signal and we will make January 6 look like a playground. This is serious stuff. You can write this aside as being crackpots and cranks and Florida man on meth. But when you hear what these people are saying from Copeland who is laying the foundation to the minister that also appears on this network, that’s saying strap this bomb to your chest to prove that you believe in the gospel. We are facing dangerous times. So that’s why I’m going on in detail about this. I hope you enjoyed the conversation. Maybe I won’t bill it as a rocket docket or maybe I will have a good time all the time. I’ll see you next time. Book of Genesis.

Speaker B: This has been the Cross examiner podcast, the Internet’s courtroom in the case of rationality versus religion. If you enjoyed this podcast, please consider subscribing. See you soon.